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Videos from 2019 Rebol Conference in Philadelphia

Videos from Philadelphia are now online:
    
https://2019.reb4.me/talks
    
I think it's some pretty impressive stuff. And it actually only scratches the surface of what's going on.
    
Some notes on 2020 direction are on the forum:
    
https://forum.rebol.info/t/foresight-in-2020-and-2019-retrospective/1258

posted by:   Fork       20-Feb-2020/18:48:42-8:00



This is fantastic. Thank you so much for the update, and for all the work you've accomplished. Last year I invested heavily in my paramotor business, in a new TV show production, and in Rockfactory, so have been distracted from everything that's gotten done. I need to spend time actually working with some of these new tools. I'm most interested in the web assembly port and the javascript bridge. Although it's probably not a popular opinion, I still think it would be a huge benefit to get /view and some GUI dialect ported, so that canvas (or webGL) could be used as the renderer. That would basically eliminate the need for JS in the browser. I'd still love to pay someone to do that work...

posted by:   Nick       27-Feb-2020/20:36:58-8:00



Hi Nick, glad to see you're still enthusiastic...!
    
> Although it's probably not a popular
> opinion, I still think it would be a
> huge benefit to get /view and some
> GUI dialect ported
    
Some people in the webassembly scene have successfully built various C UIs:
    
http://floooh.github.io/oryol-samples/wasm/TurboBadgerDemo.html
    
Hence that kind of a "canvas" is *possible*...and directly interfacing with the C without any HTML rigmarole involved. But I actually think it would be better to go with a JavaScript-based UI toolkit.
    
> That would basically eliminate the need for JS
> in the browser.
    
When "userspace" means writing entire applications in Rebol, then I don't think it matters in the near term if there's JavaScript under the hood or not. It's just an implementation detail, and you get something that has been tuned to adapt to browser resizing--and work on mobile.
    
(What keeps coming up in conversation is "Vue.js" - though I honestly don't know that much about it.)
    
> I'd still love to pay someone to do that work...
    
One other benefit of having much of the actual GUI implementation coming from a well-known JavaScript toolkit is that the talent pool of JS coders is larger!
    
Then, if you show them Rebol2 and some sample VID apps you want to see working compatibly in the browser, they might be willing to take it on. And at least you'd have a spec of what you expect to work.
    
So if you can draw up some concrete numbers of "If I had X it would be worth $Y" then maybe we could keep an eye out and solicit people? It's just hard when it's such a potentially large order and no clear amount...

posted by:   Fork       1-Mar-2020/15:10:20-8:00



Nick, I presume that you're basically wanting to build form based apps in VID using the Wasm build of Rebol. If so, how much $$ can you commit to this? BTW, I recall people were willing to plonk down $10k to open source rebol at one stage.

posted by:   Graham       1-Mar-2020/15:48:28-8:00



Thank you for the videos. Bit over my head of course but fun to watch.

posted by:   Steven White       3-Mar-2020/19:00:36-8:00



Cyphre and I were originally discussing something in the ballpark of $4500 to get R3/View and GUI ported to the browser. I don't remember what I paid for the original Android port, but think it was somewhere around $3k, so around $7500 total for both platforms. Of course, Richard had particular expertise and a personal interest in performing that work. He was able to perform the entire Android port, along with writing some demo apps, in about 15 days, if I remember correctly. I'm not sure if he was otherwise employed during that period, but either way, I understand that his time was a bargain.
    
I expect that paying normal commercial rates for this work could likely skyrocket. Perhaps I can find a college student who sees some benefit in performing the port...

posted by:   Nick       10-Mar-2020/10:23:11-7:00



I'd initially want to keep the total investment to less than $10k, but I'd need at least some basic features found in R2 (or modern replacements), beyond just basic language and GUI - e.i., perhaps network, database, filesystem, sound, etc. - at least the fundamentals required for simple CRUD capability, for example (however that capability is implemented). CRUD is still my basic fundamental requirement.

posted by:   Nick       10-Mar-2020/10:32:22-7:00



Well, the thing is all of that is server side except sound which is rendered by the browser. Server side you would the wasm can make calls to the API you develop for your server application. So, it sounds like all you need is a GUI to create a JS forms. The forms can interact with the wasm and then make network calls via the main thread to your API. The rebol server can make a database call via odbc or unixodbc, or, even mysql if that is currently working - which I haven't tested.

posted by:   Graham       12-Mar-2020/22:29:13-7:00



Graham,
    
20 years ago we had a little power tool that weighed less than 1/2 megabyte, didn't require installation, and ran on every common OS. Built-in, it had everything needed to not only quickly write some productivity-enhancing file and email management scripts, but to create a wide variety of powerful apps. I used it as a customizable computing interface daily, to deal with all the little data management tasks in my life and businesses. It was often simpler to write one-off scripts than to download, try, and implement disparate third party utility applications of all sorts. It proved to also be a powerful development environment that allowed me to create custom software that stood up to heavy commercial use. I was able to iterate quickly in the development process, make changes to live code while on the job, without complicated installations on special machines that were treated as a separate development environment, etc. Not just Rebol's uniquely productive language, but the simplicity of the entire package, with all it's carefully put together features, in a tiny enough package, requiring no other dependencies - the entire design and implementation of even a complicated app able to be maintained in a mental model and implementation routine which could be easily handled in a single person's spare - are what made Rebol useful. It was the overall package of tremendously powerful features, all implemented and integrated so simply - not just a malleable and concise language, but a complete set of tools able to be managed and maintained without the need to interact with third-party toolsets, data models and language syntax (but still able to interact with common data sources), etc., which is what made Rebol productive. That ethos, Carl's successfully executed solution (not 100% perfect, but still a gloriously productive accomplishment), seems to have disappeared. There are plenty of other capable development solutions out there, but they're all a mess to work with and integrate. Just using other tools is the opposite of what drew me to Rebol.

posted by:   Nick       14-Mar-2020/9:32:19-7:00



It sounds like what you need is a desktop GUI for ren-c. Brian has been hostile to that idea for a long long time but who knows? Maybe if enough voices say that's what they want he might reconsider. In the meantime Arnold is working on GTK for Ren-c.

posted by:   Graham       14-Mar-2020/21:07:43-7:00



At this point, mobile is more pervasive than desktop.

posted by:   Nick       15-Mar-2020/8:15:49-7:00



Nick, did you try Giulio's rebol app on Android? My chess demo?

posted by:   Graham       16-Mar-2020/19:26:24-7:00



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