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R3-GUI

I have a lot of questions about R3-GUI:
-what is it?
-will be included in Rebol 3?
-will be open source?
-will be cross platform?
-will be on GitHub?

posted by:   MaxV       8-Jan-2013/5:21:19-8:00



- R3 GUI is completly new GUI system, done from scratch for R3 language by Saphirion, as an continuation of original Carl Sassenrath's (RT) effort. It is not just slightly improved VID2, it is new GUI system, addressing what Rebol community wished for a long time, in regards to Rebol's GUI system
    
- it is available for R3, for free, so you can use it. Whether it will be accepted to official R3 distro, we will see. Even if it would not be accepted, it is still going to be available, and I am not sure we can expect Carl to continue his initial development effort
    
- it is open source, not sure about the licence
    
- R3 GUI is a Rebol level code, so it should be cross-platform, as far as View gfx engine is ported to such a platform
    
- most probably it will end-up on Github, that is upon Saphirion to decide. So far, you can download it from their website - http://development.saphirion.com

posted by:   -pekr-       8-Jan-2013/5:28:44-8:00



And what is http://www.r3gui.com ?

posted by:   MaxV       8-Jan-2013/6:56:24-8:00



Graham's copy of Carl's documentation.

posted by:   Kaj       8-Jan-2013/15:58:14-8:00



The documentation for the R3 GUI from Saphirion is rather out of date and is being updated right now.

posted by:   Henrik       18-Jan-2013/12:06:07-8:00



Why I hate spahirion?
    
First because it is not showing plans for the futur... they all were all over Carl's back when he had his disapeared moments and for his lack of plans and announcements. Well saphirion is exactly the same!
    
Is the actual way to handle things? since they have all the cards in hand can we reset an important discussion about having a fully portable r3gui that will not mean writing as much different gui codes that you will see GUI able OS?
    
I don't like project mixing free /opensource and commercial stuff... at least not when the free part is just de marketing argument to sell things based upon it. Example endian Firewall... the free version is deprecated abandonned but the commercial version is constantly maintained up to date...
    
Where is going the rebol community. It exploded in numerous individual effort that already shown proof of extinguishing then what comes next?


posted by:   Shadwolf       25-Mar-2013/20:46:48-7:00



Many are the people talking about saphirion but how does they talk about them:
    
What's special about us?
    
PRODUCTIVE_ This is good for you because we need less time than you might have thought.
    
EFFICIENT_ Internally we joke and say "All good software fits onto a floppy-disk!"
    
SIMPLICITY_ Our solutions are simple - easy to install, maintain and use. Most solutions are designed too complicated. We have streamlined designs making us faster while resulting in higher quality.
    
ENGAGED_ This means, we have high frequency release cycles. You have a change request? We do it most of the time within 24h.
    
WIZARDS_ Our team consists of highly talented people, assembling years of experience, different skills and cultural backgrounds.
    
    
----> is that the kind of guys that publish a lame documentation, and have no plans to explain to the world? Are they the ones that will make over the lacks of Carl?
    
Why I am not doing the job instead of them?
Why are you not doing the job instead of them and me?
    


posted by:   Shadwolf       25-Mar-2013/20:51:54-7:00



what is the interrest of rebol3 on android ?
    
People using smart phones wants facebook, whatsapp, angrybird but rebol? ... really... on a touch device... really?
    
Yet another lame showroom...

posted by:   shadwolf       25-Mar-2013/20:54:24-7:00



Hi Shadwolf :) For someone who doesn't use Rebol, you do spend a lot of time writing about it publicly. I've always been curious why you detest it and the community so deeply? I'm genuinely curious - you've really put a lot of effort into doing that during the past few years. How do you hope to benefit?
    
I'm looking forward to having R3-GUI on Android and all the other platforms.

posted by:   Nick       26-Mar-2013/11:39:20-7:00



You are not well informed sir!
I use rebol everyday I code tons of things with it and even with r3, and like RMA and others guru you will see not a line of those scripts.
    
And I will not bring anything to the community else than my comments on the fragments of information someone outside your friend circle can grab to show you as closed and irrelevant rebol community has became.
    
I don t hate rebol. I hate the lazzy bunch of people that waste it!
    
let me remind you some facts:
    
1) before carl decide in 2005 that he would reboot rebol to make rebol3 all that wanted the community is rebol2 to be more than a show room of unfinished technologies (rebweb plugin for example rebcode etc.. the list is long ...)
    
2) When carl came with the rebol idea the same people that where asking for the finish touch to r2 agreed to that idea.
    
3) When Carl had sporadical disapearance period those people were always trying to justify that attitude with a good reason.
    
4) Intents to clone rebol always emmerged when Carl was on a long disapearance mode and no much backup has been done.
    
5) during the 10 years I have been active in rebol community all I could see is solo hobbistic work that tend to die along with the will of their authors.
    
6) rebol is not getting better since it has been opensourced... The same people spend all their time speaking about irrelevant things and do cosmetical changes that they claim to be major improvements to rebol... As for the futur no plans...
    
7) as for the r3gui on all other plateforms you can delude yourself as much you want they will always find a good reason to justify the fact that r3gui can't be produced everywhere...
    
Conclusion the people that remains in rebol community are not creating a motion that means something to anyone.    


posted by:   Nick       27-Mar-2013/14:39:06-7:00



Nick I still expect someone to produce better than this :
http://trac.assembla.com/shadwolforge/wiki
    
when I released that instead of feliciting me for this acheivement done with r2 and use the dev comments bugs and turn around to make a better rebol2 all that the community could say is can you do it with r3gui?
    
And when I said to do that at least r3gui should exist and be less buged than the actual r2/VID.
People said I was a liar. Then they announced that RMA will take r3gui dev under their mighty wings...
    
When I said RMA r3gui was going nowhere and producing nothing I was logically banned. At that time only 20 people were actively interrested in rebol...


posted by:   shadwolf       27-Mar-2013/14:47:31-7:00



and in the end it is not an effort to speak with others... And trust me I spend in that less time than any of the rebol guru does.
    
Most of the miss behavior I pin pointed to the world since 2005 have got changed.
    
I asked for a rebol opensource (I was speaking of rebol 2... and I got rebol3...well it's like asking for a mokachino and get a glass of plain raw water ... )
    
I asked for some people to gather around a concrete project led by the community at first I got rebgui (no complains it remains the best things around the gui topic). When rebgui wasn't integrated to rebol2 /VID which was the logical conclusion of that tremendous work it's author disapeared. Then the next effort was led by RMA like 6 years later on a way more closed approch close to the ways to work of Carl that are so much to criticize.
    
Last example Carl release r3 open source ask for ideas on futur plans and disapear for how much time who knows. But it was always like that Carl or RMA or anyone does their stuff in their corner release it for testing to accumulate comments and then ... disapear and there is no next episode to that intent...
    
This community always worked that way and probably will always work that way since there is no real effort from the mass to organise things around long term work.
    
So the forks will continue to emmerge and pile up apporting their bunch of tiny improvements until their authors get borred and spend his free time on something else.

posted by:   nick       27-Mar-2013/14:57:53-7:00



Nick it is not like r3 wasn't a 7 years old alpha project and like rma wasn't in charge of the r3gui since 2 and half years (july 2010...)
    
During all that time nothing was proposed around rebol futur what are the goals behind what derection will be taken ? how can a common effort emmerge toward the long term resolution of rebol's problem?
    
Now that rebol3 is opensourced my feeling is that it's going to stay in it's actual shape for a while.
    
I don't want RMA or people of rebol bazaar to profite of Carl's work I want those people to work toguether in an organised way toward the goal to make a better rebol and not to make more profits on Carl's back ...


posted by:   Shadwolf       27-Mar-2013/15:05:15-7:00



I wouldn't have been so much disgusted for instance if RMA even if they couldn't actively work on r3gui code because of bugs and Carl retaining source code during 2 years was proposing la list of widgets, a documentation on the futur system, a brain storming discussion about the design maybe trying to find a relevant all purpose graphical library or trying to write one. In other word trying to prepare the after to not be in the actual situation.
    
Carl released r3 source code RMA saw that it could be compiled for arm and integrated a r3core demo for android ... as for the futur plans? noone knows all the Cyphre's attention seems to be focus on android and so to tell the r3gui dev is on the 10th layer background. Rebol Bazaar just retake what spahirion release in r3gui domain so there is no plans from them ... etc...
R E B O L [] print "STFU!!^M" view layout [bellow label 22 red "STFU!!" btn "Quit!" [ quit ]]
    
Nick I m not the only one that grew tired of rebol community ways. But the massive majority of us remain silence and let you play the code gurus.


posted by:   shadwolf       27-Mar-2013/15:17:42-7:00



Shadwolf, thanks for the explanation. I hope that the gurus in the community get R3 going. I'm happy already with what Saphirion has released for Android, because I use an Android phone - and it's the most popular new computing platform. I think they, and others, see that that's the most sensible platform for which there has not been a REBOL interpreter released, so personally I'm glad they're working on it. Once they've got a handle on the release for Android, they plan to release for other OSs. Until then, I still use R2 happily :)

posted by:   Nick       28-Mar-2013/21:50:04-7:00



@NickA: about vid1r3 from AltME: It is TOOOO soon to exact that it already works for all scripts! It now lacks a lot of important features: draw effects, image effect (not present in R3 !), iterated faces etc. But one step at a time. I hope someone will help me add missing features.

posted by:   luce80       31-Jan-2013/14:25:42-7:00



luce80, I had little expectation to ever see anything like this exist, so I was more than pleased to find that not only had it gotten started, but already actually works to a usable degree. It should be very helpful for new users. I just wanted to post my first attempts at getting it started.

posted by:   Nick       31-Jan-2013/15:28:38-7:00