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Does Anyone Know The Status Of Rebol 3

Does anyone have an idea as to the percentage of completion were at with Rebol 3. How far away is the realization of a view 3 or vid 3 or GUI development. I'm really interested in seeing a complete and usable Rebol/Services is it being worked on or is it back burner?

posted by:   jrichards       16-May-2010/13:50:18-7:00



Not sure anyone knows. New bugs keep being discovered that would probably hinder a release.

posted by:   Paul       16-May-2010/14:24:44-7:00



We've all been wondering that for a long time now - there have been no definitive plans released in the recent past (at last nothing concrete that I've heard of), so I'm planning on using R2 for production work. When a stable release of R3 is finished, it should be a great improvement, but I'm not holding my breath for the near future.

posted by:   Nick       16-May-2010/22:37:22-7:00



Once the new Host Kit is released with view extracted from the core the community will be able to do more to help progress R3. Carl is a apparently now working toward this goal.

posted by:   Alan       16-May-2010/23:29:05-7:00



REBOL 3 right now is continuous work on fixing bugs and moving through the plan, although very slowly. Carl will disappear for weeks to work on these things. I guess the most visible place to follow progress is Curecode:
    
http://curecode.org/rebol3/view-tickets.rsp
    
GUI development is now unofficially being done by a third party, RM-Asset, but the strain is hard on them to finish other tasks, which takes a lot of time, so this moves slowly as well.
    
For production work, I recommend sticking with REBOL 2, perhaps for another year.

posted by:   Henrik       17-May-2010/2:51:25-7:00



Thanks All,
    
It has been difficult to actually get a grasp of where we are. I hope some day in the near future we see a completed project. I have experimented with other languages but I always keep coming back to Rebol and I always keep dreaming that the features that have been suggested to be available will work. One of my pet projects is personal cloud services using a plug computer. I think Rebol would be an exceptional fit for these devices.
    
Jim

posted by:   jrichards       17-May-2010/5:06:24-7:00



@jrichards
by what I am reading on rebol.com, it doesn't look like it is quite close.
I believe I read a short while ago, shadwolf has replied 20xx, which
is not promising...
    
    


posted by:   yuem       24-May-2010/15:29:13-7:00



@jrichards
by what I am reading on rebol.com, it doesn't look like it is quite close.
I believe I read a short while ago, shadwolf has replied 20xx, which
is not promising...
    
    


posted by:   yuem       24-May-2010/15:29:44-7:00



some of us now think it will never happen :(

posted by:   Graham       8-Jun-2010/21:19:36-7:00



Never? Is that based on any concrete knowledge, or just frustration?

posted by:   Nick       8-Jun-2010/22:28:01-7:00



@Graham: Do you?

posted by:   Endo       9-Jun-2010/3:10:31-7:00



Graham is just being naturally negative. :-)

posted by:   Henrik       9-Jun-2010/3:34:31-7:00



to graham's defence, although I am new to Rebol myself, we must be honest and accept the fact that Rebol3 is getting long in the tooth.    
    
Rebol2 didn't even have a complete stack and they started Rebol3. one example at random, VID is not even completed, although i heard it took 1 week to do that, yet after 10 years it's still quite primitive.
    
How many years Rebol 3 is in the making ?
    
That's one of the reasons, at my workplace, the bosses chose Ruby over Rebol. there seems to be more activity and maturity and also a very wide ecosystem in the more vibrant ruby community. just take a look at rubyforge to have an idea of how many things are happening, + also the interests of Apple, Sun(thoughtworks) , Microsoft, Engine Yard in the language.
    
I am still playing with rebol for my personal curiosity in the language.
    


posted by:   yuem       9-Jun-2010/22:01:27-7:00



At present I think it will take a miracle to complete R3. You can deduce from the various releases and curecode that real work has essentially stopped. Unfortunately this is more about personal issues than technical ... and technical issues have a higher probability of being overcome.

posted by:   Graham       14-Jun-2010/19:46:50-7:00



yuem,
you said your bosses chose ruby over rebol, so I presume your team recently looked at other alternative languages as well?
    
we are about to go through the same process, we are trying to see if we could start using open/source languages. that's why I am visiting this site.
    
We currently are using .Net.    
    
we have a short list like PHP, RUBY, SCALA, objective C, groovy, python.
    
you said your bosses chose ruby over rebol. can you let me know more about your findings. that would help me in my search.
    


posted by:   eric       20-Jun-2010/11:32:44-7:00



I use Python when I can't use REBOL. I've been much more productive with REBOL. I love the potential of Haxe - write one code base and compile to PHP, C++, Javascript, Actionscript 3, SWF, etc. It's the main focus of my recent learning, gaining some community support, and definitely worth a look.

posted by:   Nick       20-Jun-2010/13:01:15-7:00



@eric,
    
the reasons why my workplace chose Ruby over rebol are quite long. it's a 10 page document, and it's internal and applies to my company's environment
    
However I am allowed only to summarize it , if that's what you want.
    
    
    
    
    
    


posted by:   yuem       25-Jun-2010/7:38:22-7:00



I can guess the reasons, but I'm curious to hear from your company's point of view.

posted by:   Nick       25-Jun-2010/18:29:22-7:00



yuem,
    
It is still ok if you give a summary of the reasons of choosing one over the other one. I don't need the 10 page document.

posted by:   eric       26-Jun-2010/15:09:33-7:00



Lemme guess: not as many available libraries, not enough interoperability with other technologies, smaller community, inconsistent support by RT. I think that would turn away many institutions.
    
For me, REBOL's been fantastically productive - glad I don't have to work in a group :)

posted by:   Nick       26-Jun-2010/15:36:02-7:00



@eric,
    
this is the summary you requested. Please note that you should NOT make your decision based on this summary. our company is different from yours and this was for our internal use only. Our needs or views are different from yours. You should make your decision based on your own assessment.
    
    
Advantages of ruby:-
- very good documentation
- more mature, a bigger and more active community,
- concise language,
- code blocks,
- easy to learn and quick return on investment,
- has many good web frameworks like rails, merb, sinatra etc...
- good gui libaries, fxruby, wxruby , qt, GTK etc..
- can talk to MS Office apps well, and also enterprise friendly.
- community can survive even if Matz disappears i.e not a one man community,and less risky investment,
- major corporations interested and directly involved in the language:- Microsoft (iron ruby), Sun through the JVM and also (JRuby), other backers are Engine Yard, thoughtworks, and also supported directly by Apple (mac osx)
- Jruby can use the vast number of java libraries available out there, Iron ruby can leverage the .Net libraries.
- Principle of least surprise in the design. language design to make programmer happy.
- friendly and helpful community, bigger ecosystem.
- Many very good professional level ides available like intellij, eclipse, netbeans, radrails, rubymine, too many to list ...
- good metaprogramming
- cross platform
- scalable especially if you use JVM or .Net
- free and open source
    
    
    
Disadvantages of Ruby:
- a bit slow, it is interpreted, however this is no longer a problem, especially if you go with
JRuby(Java platform) and Iron Ruby(.Net). also ruby 1.9 is faster than ruby 1.8.
- environment is bigger.
- Not as big a name as java or C#
- doesn't run on iphone/ipad
    
    
    
Advantages of Rebol
- small env less than 1 Mb,
- small is beautiful philosophy.
- concise language e.g gui is simple for simple things.
- friendly and helpful community.
- has a great future if it opens up and buids a big active community. some interesting ideas.
- good metaprogramming
- cross platform
- partly free, and partly open
    
Disadvantages of Rebol
- acute lack of documentation
- big investments in terms of effort to learn and master because of lack of docs    
- no available hot web framework, embedded rebol code with html.
- not enterprise ready and cannot interact very well with msoffice apps,
- Interpreted and slow.
- not mature enough. gui is very difficult for complex screens, gui is very primitive
- language has some weird/dangerous behaviour when it comes to behaviour of series in a loop or a function. wywinwyg - What You Write Is Not What You Get.
- big programs are not very readable, made worse when coders cram a lot in one line.
- very small community and small ecosystem as well
- mainly a one man effort, investment in the language at risk if the creator disappears
- transition from rebol2 to rebol3 taking too long, ( our need is for a working language now not 5 years down the road.)
- global scoping, you cannot make a function/variable in an object private. any other
object can call all the functions in another object. bad program design principle. for example, we need ability to have private functions which other objects are not able to call.
- no true rebol ide
- no multi threading
- litte known about its scalability.
- full/complete stack not available
- doesn't run on iphone/ipad
    
    


posted by:   yuem       4-Jul-2010/0:17:27-7:00



"language has some weird/dangerous behaviour when it comes to behaviour of series in a loop or a function. wywinwyg - What You Write Is Not What You Get."
    
Actually you do and the behavior is well-defined, but it's difficult to know, if one doesn't know how REBOL handles series inside loops. It's the old "copy trap" all over again that could be solved by simply asking other developers. Many beginners fall into this, but it's easy to overcome.
    
"big programs are not very readable, made worse when coders cram a lot in one line."
    
Programs are as readable or as unreadable as you make them. I would think that counts for any language.
    
"No true REBOL IDE"
    
That's usually because REBOL doesn't require one to work, a good side effect of its design. I've tried writing an IDE several times, but found that instead of helping me, it gets in the way. It's better to focus on having a good text editor to manage lots of files and an easy way to execute scripts from the editor.
If you need some kind of preprocessor to build large scripts from many small script files, REBOL Technology already offers one in less than 200 lines of code, which is fully documented on rebol.com here:
    
http://www.rebol.com/docs/sdk/prebol.html
    
Integrating REBOL into another IDE, like visual studio is a different matter, which R3 will solve.
    
The rest I somewhat agree with.

posted by:   Henrik       4-Jul-2010/5:01:20-7:00



The problem with lack of community size cannot be overstated enough.

posted by:   Yuri       17-Aug-2010/13:55:07-7:00



The community size is both a blessing and problem. The blessing is, the people who are around the community are very active, and very helpful and for the most part, very talented. But you need to get on AltME for the quickest response. I've posted on other forums and never had a response, never has that happened in AltME.
    
The problem with the community being small is there aren't *many* highly-travelled forums. So not knowing where to get feedback can cause stress, but once connected, the community is a very effective bunch.

posted by:   Brock       19-Aug-2010/22:52:49-7:00



That's hardly the problem regarding community size. Leave off the fact that Rebol3 on Altme is a boy's club, a lack of community means slow growth overall. Rebol is a hobby at best.

posted by:   Yuri       20-Aug-2010/18:43:18-7:00



It hasn't been just a hobby for me: http://www.rebol.com/cgi-bin/blog.r?view=0482#comments

posted by:   Nick       21-Aug-2010/0:45:21-7:00



Nick..you posted (from that link)..
"I wrote the software system for this business, from the ground up in REBOL: http://merchantsvillage.com . That package contains a bar code system to handle millions of pieces of inventory from hundreds of vendors, a security program to monitor and record more than 100 simultaneous video cameras, and every other activity that occurs in every facet of that business, all written entirely in REBOL. I co-own that building (120,000 sq ft on 29 acres), entirely because of what I was able to accomplish with REBOL.
Nick
12-Aug-2010 8:47:45     Here are some screen shots of that software: http://re-bol.com/merchants_village_screen_shots.zip"
    
Those are some of the ugliest screens I've seen in a long time.. very 1995. (just being honest)
    
I've been working on a project using HTML5, AJAX, PHP.. for a rental company that makes your project look sick. (again, just being honest)
    
If you want, I can bring those projects up-to-date.


posted by:   Yuri       21-Aug-2010/3:09:59-7:00



And rockfactory.us is frankly, a really ugly site. Companies hire me all the time to take sites like that a bring them into the 21st century.
    
http://pappg.com is the same.
    
Now your point of "making money" isn't because you use Rebol.. it's because of the applications / market, if anything.
    
AND... in all honesty, you could increase market share by updating your stuff.

posted by:   Yuri       21-Aug-2010/3:18:28-7:00



Yuri,
    
My skill and interest in graphic design has never been strong. I actually disdain the focus on graphic design in software development - they're two separate topics. The Rockfactory web page design is a simple table layout that I came up with 13 years ago, and it's suited my needs well, so I continue to use it for many small sites. I dominate my little markets, and couldn't improve market share much, if at all, so I'm not motivated to change the look of the sites. Of course I agree, the web sites and software could use the touch of a good graphic artist to look prettier - and because I'm using a template system for page layout, changing out the look of the sites would take approximately 5 seconds and the click of a single button. But it's just not important to me. The visual layout is totally separate from the working code. The pages that I created for pappg.com were done exactly to the specs that the site owner requested - not my design. But again, that's totally separate from the function the pages provide. I posted screen shots of the Merchant's Village software to show that it actually exists, not to show a pretty GUI example - Shadwolf asked for proof of projects that I'd completed which were commercially successful, and that's something I have to show which has made a lot of money.
    
But that's not the point. Using another software development tool would NOT have changed the look of those web layouts. My graphic design skills are what they are, and those skills are separate from my logical abilities to write working software code. The reason I use REBOL is because it's always been more PRODUCTIVE then other development tools. There's no other tool that would've enabled me to write as much useful software in the same amount of time with so little effort. I use one simple little tool for everything - web development, critical multiuser data management software, multimedia applications, network apps, etc., all in commercial use for years and enabling my businesses to run productively. No software development team - just me, writing applications in my spare time, using the simplest and most productive development environment available. Your point was that "REBOL is a hobby at best", and you're INCORRECT about that. REBOL is obviously not your tool of choice. That's fine - I don't have any argument with you about that. I'm going to continue to use REBOL because it has been, and still continues to be the best and most productive tool for the work I need to complete. If there are other tools that fit your needs and interests better, then move on and use what's right for you. My point was just to counter the sentiment that REBOL is not capable as anything but hobbyist's toy, for those who are interested. In my experience, REBOL has been an extraordinarily productive business computing tool, and I couldn't have achieved the same ends without it.

posted by:   Nick       21-Aug-2010/9:55:05-7:00



Yuri, an important point you seem to have missed, and the reason for my long post at the link above was the fact that I've created an enormous variety of useful custom software tools with REBOL. What you see on the web site is mostly just a trivial bit of marketing information. The tools that we use to get real work done on a daily basis - to be productive, in life and the real world are all written in REBOL. Those tools have useful depth, and they are pervasive in every part of the work we do on a daily basis. Most of those tools are used internally - you don't see them on the public web site - they're not about marketing or pretty advertising, but functionality, and there are a lot of them, helping to enable and manage a lot of activity, both in commercial and personal settings. I create software solutions for my real life needs, quickly and easily with REBOL. For me, REBOL's productivity benefits have made it an invaluable development tool, over and over and over again. That's why I use it. You're using this web site to communicate with me, and it was written in REBOL in a matter of hours :) Of course it could be prettier...

posted by:   Nick       21-Aug-2010/11:45:37-7:00



To keep this entire conversation in one place, here's a repost of what I wrote at the link above.
    
    
Shadwolf wrote:
    
nick hum... That's non sense from head to Toe. You do production with rebol everyday ? prouve it. where what how and how much greenies you made past year with rebol
    
    
I replied:
    
Shadwolf,
    
This business runs entirely on REBOL: http://rockfactory.us . Daily scheduling, accounting, web site maintenance, event scheduling, student signin notification and other workflow apps, as well as programs that play and print music, which we use to teach and practice in many hundreds of lessons a week, are all written in REBOL. I've employed 25+ instructors at that business for the past 6 years.
    
This business runs entirely on REBOL: http://www.myzeusscloset.com . I created the program that handles their point of sale, inventory management, accounting, check writing activities, and more, entirely in REBOL (their web site was done by someone else).
    
I wrote the software system for this business, from the ground up in REBOL: http://merchantsvillage.com . That package contains a bar code system to handle millions of pieces of inventory from hundreds of vendors, a security program to monitor and record more than 100 simultaneous video cameras, and every other activity that occurs in every facet of that business, all written entirely in REBOL. I co-own that building (120,000 sq ft on 29 acres), entirely because of what I was able to accomplish with REBOL.
    
Here are some screen shots of that software: http://re-bol.com/merchants_village_screen_shots.zip
    
The member pages and classified ads for this site run entirely on REBOL CGI programs: http://pappg.com (look at member #1).
    
I also own a number of personal sites that are #1, 2, or 3 in Google for their respective search terms, all of which owe something to REBOL. Look up "paramotor tutorial" (#1, written in makedoc), "live online music lessons" (#1, many features of that web site are REBOL), "computer programming tutorial" (#3, written about REBOL), etc.
    
I've written many hundreds of small scripts and utilities that I use daily in my work and personal life. There are several hundred pages of examples at re-bol.com/examples.txt
    
The work that I've been able to accomplish with the help of programs that I've written in REBOL has contributed over a million dollars to my net worth. Is that enough to satisfy your curiosity?
    
    
KD123 wrote:
    
www.rockfactory.com seems to be using Perl.
    
    
And I responded:
    
There's one old script that still handles form mail there.
    
Here's a quick rundown of REBOL code that Rockfactory relies on:
    
* My REBOL sitebuilder.cgi is used to edit content and build all the main publicly viewable pages of the Rockfactory site.
    
* My REBOL web-tool.cgi is used to upload, download, search, backup, perform file/folder manipulation, and to perform all other general site maintenance operations.
    
* The recital_signup.cgi is used, along with a GUI desktop REBOL app, to organize all public events at which students perform.
    
* Here's a screen shot of the REBOL signin.r program that students use to sign in to every lesson, every time they come to the shop: http://re-bol.com/signin_screenshot2.jpg . That ties into a notification system in each lesson studio that audibly announces to each individual instructor when their next student has arrived (only for their own students). That in turn keeps a searchable history (which is backed up on the web site) of every student signin that has ever occured.
    
* Every day, teachers check out (settle payment) using a REBOL desktop application which allows them to automatically select students they've seen that day, from their online schedule. A full backup of all this data is saved online, and a REBOL cgi application can be accessed by any teacher at any time to generate reports for records of lesson history for any time period, for any student or group of students. The entire detailed history of every single lesson we've ever given, and every single payment we've ever received is all immediately available and searchable online.
    
* A version of the clock-sync.r script (built into the checkout program) automatically keeps all the computer clocks in the building synced to the same time.
    
* ALL Rockfactory checks are all printed using a custom REBOL check writing program. It stores the names of all our vendors, default recurring payment amounts, etc. and prints everything, including the verbalized payment amount, signature, etc., on our custom bank checks.
    
* We use guitar-chords.r to teach a standardized method of jazz chord study to guitarists. Chord charts for every song that students perform in their local school jazz band concerts get printed out using that program.
    
* We use the chord-accompaniment-player.r program every day to generate chord progressions (audible song backgrounds) to practice with.
    
* Vocal intructors use a version of the jukebox.r program to remove vocals from recordings, to create Karaoke versions of the songs, for students practice with.
    
* Teachers, staff, and students use the intercom.r to speak with each other (voice over IP) without having to get up and and walk between studio rooms, waiting rooms, management offices, etc. An internal REBOL file server is also used to transfer files between rooms.
    
* The reschedule.cgi page on the web site is used to manage up-to-the-minute rescheduling of students on a daily basis. This is the most critical part of our daily workflow, and is one of the biggest advantages we offer to teachers over other studios - our teachers get immediate notifications directly in their daily schedules (viewable online in any browser), and by email, with requested reschedule times, picked by students, from their available open appointment times (that info is also immediately available online to clients, on the reschedule page). Our secretary also gets a notification of each request, and each rescheduled appointment initiated online (5-20 per day) saves an average of 4 phone calls (per EACH request), or LOTS of time, money, and frustration for us.
    
* The rescheduler ties into a significant backend scheduling system that teachers and secretarial staff use to organize hundreds of weekly appointments with 25+ teachers.
    
* The entire system can be managed using REBOL CGI applications that run on a standard tiny WAP cell phone browser - I use my little clamshell phone to organize my online schedule and personal data every single day - no smart phone required.
    
* There are also several REBOL console scripts for Windows Mobile that I used for years to manage the entire system.
    
* Everything about the online videoconference lessons except the actual video/audio tranfer (login, IP tracking, scheduling, file transfer, etc.) is also all managed by REBOL cgi scripts.
    
* I regularly use my remove-emails-cgi.r script to delete Rockfactory spam email.
    
* I use my chmod777to555.rto help manage security on the web site.
    
* My forum.cgi script is used internally to carry on interactions between staff and students regarding rehearsal and performance activities, equipment use, etc.
    
* My simple_search.r script is used every day to search for curriculum files and other text documents that get handed out to students.
    
* So many other little scripts have been useful. I used the my web-cam.r script to take photos of all the teachers. We've made fun use of the voice-alarms.r script. It'd be impossible for me to think of all the one/several liners I've created on the the spot for some special use.
    
Everything I've listed here is code that I've written from the ground up in REBOL, usually in my spare time.
    
As it turns out, the only part of the Rockfactory computing setup that ever gives me trouble is that stupid PERL mail script on Rockfactory.us. I've been meaning to switch it out for a more reliable REBOL script that I've used elsewhere, which puts notifications directly into our scheduling system. Maybe that makes it more clear that Rockfactory's computing needs are decidedly NOT DRIVEN BY PERL. Thanks for the reminder to switch out that little form mail script :)
    
I'm sure there are so many others. Today, I noticed http://rockfactory.us/jam/photo_viewer.cgi .

posted by:   Nick       21-Aug-2010/12:38:55-7:00



Article - Ghosts in the Machine - 12 Languages that Never Took Off
    
http://www.focus.com/briefs/software-development/12-coding-languages/

posted by:   Yuri       22-Aug-2010/20:17:43-7:00



Yuri,
    
You're going on again about the same subject of popularity, which is a measure of marketing success, more than the value and capability of the tool.

posted by:   Nick       22-Aug-2010/21:22:05-7:00



And you're missing the whole point, that popularity plays a significant role in the value and capability of the tool.

posted by:   Yuri       24-Aug-2010/12:32:06-7:00



REBOL is not popular, but it has been valuable and capable of satisfying the large majority of my needs.

posted by:   Nick       24-Aug-2010/16:17:59-7:00



Both of you has some rights,
Rebol has some disadvantages, because it is not popular.
You cannot say I know Rebol and get the job. You will be asked for C# or Java or ASP/PHP. But this is same for other unpopular languages. You need to know at least one of those languages which is popular.
    
Advantages of Rebol is Rebol's itself. I usually use Rebol console as a handy tool, I wrote tons of tcp/udp/http test applications in VB before I use Rebol, now they are all unnecessary.. Now I use Rebol on my customers.
    
I wrote a complete web-based voting system with session handling, authentication, product & screenshot upload, voting, automatic calculation of votes & results and chat. Less than 4 hours. (btw I didn't work on web projects almost 10 years).
    
I found a bug in Cheyenne about session handling and tell immediately on Altme. Doc fixed the bug in less than 30 minutes and send me the fixed version.
    
So, small community is also has some advantages & disadvantages.


posted by:   Endo       25-Aug-2010/15:52:22-7:00



thank you to have the minimal polite attitude by informing the people you talk about here...
    
Franckly I'm in this community since 2003 it was first time i heard about you ... so thousand of script my ass man ... you are the Zero level of contribution nick get it...

posted by:   shadwolf       29-Aug-2010/0:53:49-7:00



As for the status of R3 ... well it's been hostkitized and a bounty hunter group of rascal is supposed to be working on the GUI. This far they still achieved nothing new compared to what did previously Carl. So we are all pending on news. As for the R3 main thing well Carl is supposed to be actively working on the API of the hostkit.
    
R3 is still in alpha and as things goes it'll remain in that stage for many more years...
    
Be patient :)

posted by:   shadwolf       29-Aug-2010/0:57:42-7:00



As a noob, I was wondering whether to give R2 a miss and go straight to R3 alpha. However, it seems that R3 will take a while (and I assume there's no graphical component yet). From what I've read, the basic concepts haven't changed much, so hopefully I won't have to "unlearn" too much when R3 is released.

posted by:   Jules       17-Oct-2010/14:14:31-7:00



Stick with R2 for now. Keep an eye on R3 for progress, but don't hold your breath if you want to use it for critical work.

posted by:   Nick       17-Oct-2010/16:12:09-7:00



R3 core has some small but annoying differences to R2 core....Nothing really major, but you may need to tweak R2 code to work under R3. Mainly i/o (read, write) and object access.
    
Ladislav and I have written about out initial conversion experiences here:
     http://www.rebol.org/art-display-index.r?a=R3
    
On the other hand, R3 to R2 is likely to be very different, especially if you have used a lot of the new R3 words. So best not to write to R3 and then try to retro-fit to run under R2 as well (or instead).

posted by:   Sunanda       18-Oct-2010/7:04:32-7:00



I suggest you to learn more about series, ports and blocks using R2. It is almost same with R3 so you can easily shift to R3 when it released.
I assume that you already have programming experiences.
If you're planning to use Rebol in a project, start with R2 (as R3 is in alpha stage), later you can convert to R3, but you don't have to, R2 is stable.

posted by:   Endo       18-Oct-2010/8:12:03-7:00



Thanks for tips Endo.
    
I do have programming experience, but I'm beginning to wonder whether it's a liability rather than an asset.
Getting to grips with the functional paradigm of "Code is data" and "Data is code" is making my head hurt. :-)
    
The advice for noobs is to forget what you know about programming; easier said than done (I've been using "conventional" languages for 12 years). Old habits die hard, but I'm going to persist, because I can see how much more productive Rebol will make me. Also, I love the interactivity of it;the fact that you can get instant feedback at the console makes it very easy (and fun) to learn and experiment. It's one "aha!" moment after another.

posted by:   Jules       19-Oct-2010/4:20:04-7:00



I do understand you, Jules. I also use other languages for ~20 years, it was really difficult to learn how to use Rebol in a rebolish way.
    
Blocks, for example. It is just a block following a CASE, it is not a syntax rule. "there should be some code inside [] brackets after CASE" -NO.
You can simple write CASE B, and it works if B is a block. You can get that block from a network port, read from a file, or build it on-the-fly. doesn't matter. just a block.
    
And R2 console, what a handy tool! It always stays open in my taskbar. I use it for lots of things. So Rebol is not just a language, it is a platform.

posted by:   Endo       20-Oct-2010/4:12:43-7:00



Jules, hang in there. It takes time to "get it", and when you've gotten it, you're staring down a very deep rabbit hole... :-)
    
Like Endo says, it helps to understand the design first, rather than simply memorize the function names.
    
The downside is that when working with other languages, after using REBOL for a while, will feel frustrating.

posted by:   Henrik       26-Oct-2010/14:56:28-7:00



Thanks Henrik, I don't plan on giving up. The great thing about Rebol is that you don't have to grasp all the deep and subtle aspects of the language before starting to write useful code.

posted by:   Jules       27-Oct-2010/3:07:42-7:00



it looks like this is also being discussed on the rebol french forum
    
http://www.digicamsoft.com/cgi-bin/rebelBB.cgi?thread=<18Nov2010123433121185100>

posted by:   sidney       28-Dec-2010/16:53:21-8:00



I agree with the desire to continue work on 2.x R3 development has been a difficult process for the community.

posted by:   Nick       29-Dec-2010/1:22:44-8:00



... and I'm still hoping that a vote for open sourcing R2 might still be heard some day ...

posted by:   Nick       29-Dec-2010/1:23:58-8:00



I vote pros...
    
R2 is a final product, sold with a SDK. Used in real life, in professionnal world.
It is not perfect, but it works.

posted by:   nve       29-Dec-2010/8:01:53-8:00



It is now June 2011, does anyone know if Rebol has been abandoned or there is quiet work behind closed doors.

posted by:   Srinivas Pavani       4-Jun-2011/13:02:40-7:00



It is now June 2011, does anyone know if Rebol has been abandoned or there is quiet work behind closed doors.

posted by:   srinivas       4-Jun-2011/13:03:54-7:00



All we know is that there is no quiet work behind closed doors anymore. Whether that means REBOL is abandoned is anyone's guess.

posted by:   Kaj       6-Jun-2011/8:27:29-7:00



Did the world end on Dec 2010 and re-start for a brief moment on Jun 4-6th 2011?
I was looking for a micro language to go with my micro laptop - I discovered REBOL - but before I really discovered it, my mighty micro eee pc crashed completly and with it my hope of building a REBOL 'everything I need' programme for - well - anything I need. Now my micro pc is BrOkEn (am in this forum on my mobile phone)... Thought I would look up a karaoke player for windows programmed in REBOL, a google search brought me here, thought I found a Rebol programmer here as in 'nick' that could help, but alas looks like not only has my micro laptop crashed, but also REBOL as in last posts been Dec 2010. Anyone an idea what has happened? Nick you still around? Want to build me a karaoke player for my friends windows 7 laptop and re-awaken the Mighty Micro World of REBOL once again???
Im tired now, will pop in here tomorrow to see has the world woken up, Mykell.

posted by:   Mykell       15-Jul-2011/0:27:45-7:00



Hi, I just wrote this script a few days ago. It may not suitable for you but you may improve:
    
     R E B O L []
    
     s: {
     I want you to love me, ^/
     Like I'm a hot ride (uh yeah)^/
     Keep thinkin' of me (uh)^/
     Doin' what you like^/
     So boy forget about the world ^/
     'Cause it's gon' be me and you tonight (yeah)^/
     I wanna make your beg for it, ^/
     Then Imma make you swallow your pride.^/
     }
    
     p: parse/all s " "
    
     gui: layout [
         backcolor 100.110.120
         x: label white red / 1.6 400x400 "" edge [size: 1x1 color: red] rate 0:0:0.3 with [font/valign: 'center] feel [
             engage: func [f a e] [
                 if a = 'time [
                     append f/text join first p " "
                     if empty? p: next p [x/rate: none]
                     show x
                 ]
             ]
         ]
         btn "halt" [halt]
     ]
    
     clear x/text
     show x
     view gui


posted by:   Endo       15-Jul-2011/9:16:36-7:00



Mykell, I'm still around - just extremely busy with commercial work. What do you have in mind? Have you looked at the tutorial at http://re-bol.com to get started with REBOL?

posted by:   Nick       15-Jul-2011/19:46:08-7:00



Thanks Nick, and Endo. I've posted a related message in 'is rebol.com still alive?' as I assume its preferable to keep a particular subject in one, or at least similar thread.
I'm new to forums and new to REBOL, though I did briefly investigate (a few months ago) how feasible and/or popular it is as a programming language. I did check the tutorials, but only glanced over them - had a look again yesterday Sat 17th and I have to admit its got the 'wanting to programme blood' flowing again - and hopfully I'll have time in the near future to study them in more detail. I have a couple of small projects I'd like to do in REBOL as part of my learning of the language, though the karaoke player wasnt one of them; its just a friends interest, so I thought I'd see could it be done with REBOL. Yeah I'll have a look at that code
Endo - it looks like the bare nuts&bolts - but if you dont get the nuts&bolts sorted - the bigger machine might never be built... Even though I dont know REBOL, I feel it could deal with all the intricacies of what makes a good karaoke player, but a problem for me is not knowing how and if REBOL can read the various audio+graphic formats that karaoke discs use - formats that are not usually part of media players in windows?
Hey Nick is that your tutorial on rebol.com? Looks good, and this site too I think is yours aswell - I didnt realise I was among such well seasoned programmers: Endo, Nick, and CARL? The developer of REBOL? Well I'm privileged. Hope this post isnt to long, not sure if theres limits or rules. Um! If this is your site Nick, perhaps a link to site rules and etiquette??? Just incase I start posting Rebol blocks of f's[] and b's[] :-)
Ok best get to know the VID dialect <-- o look I'm using the RebLingo already lol. All 4 now.

posted by:   Mykell       17-Jul-2011/18:31:37-7:00