Article about Ni, a new language influenced by Rebol
posted by: Nick 10-Dec-2015/10:14:43-8:00
According to the maker himself this language has nothing to do with Rebol or Red whatsoever. As far as I know this was nothing more than an advertisement for his own language, trying to gain momentum, to attract developers that become dissatisfied with progress on Rebol and Red.
posted by: iArnold 11-Dec-2015/2:32:21-8:00
From the article:
"For the ordered sequence, Ni is inspired by Rebol/Lisp and has the “Block” as the fundamental data structure. It’s like an OrderedCollection, and uses square bracket [1 2 3] syntax. And yes, it’s also the same syntax for code blocks because Ni is homoiconic. This means that code and data share the same representation, just like in Lisp/Rebol."
"But let’s get back to Blocks. Not only are they both code and dynamic arrays, they also do double duty as streams since they have an embedded position “cursor”, just like in Rebol."
"Ni is evolving and it doesn’t do objects yet but I think Ni already shows (as Rebol already also has shown to some extent) that you can have a Smalltalk-ish language that is at the same time homoiconic and deeply functional."
He even says:
"It was an itch I finally scratched when I discovered Rebol and Red recently (should have looked at Rebol much earlier, but had missed it)."
Why such vitriol?
posted by: Nick 11-Dec-2015/10:40:48-8:00
It is what he said on gitter himself that it had no connection to both Rebol and Red. And he really burst into the room, without any introduction, without any intent to join the discussions or to add anything useful, clearly (to me anyway) just advertising his own site and little language. After just a little while pretending to chat nicely, he did not return again. So I don't feel any discussion about this is the least necessary and if I could I would delete the entire item from the forum. Waste of time.
posted by: iArnold 16-Dec-2015/16:10:46-8:00
I didn't ever see the author's Gitter post, but the descriptions and comparisons quoted above, from his publicly published article, are valid. Despite whatever offended you about his 'pretending to chat nicely' and then not taking part more in our own community discussions, the fact is that those attributed properties of Ni do actually share the proposed technical similarities with Rebol, as described, and that's interesting to me. I don't see anything wrong with his 'advertising' in one of the few spaces online which would most likely gather an audience who might be interested in hearing his news. Is there some other reason that you know of which makes this news somehow destructive to the efforts of the Rebol/Red community? I'm glad to see some Rebol language characteristics appear in another language, especially with attribution provided.
posted by: Nick 18-Dec-2015/5:44:39-8:00
I tried to answer this three times now, but I just kept repeating my arguments about his just trying to attract people from this community for his own benefit. Besides the captcha words were too long ;-) So I leave it at this.
posted by: iArnold 18-Dec-2015/9:59:38-8:00
I'll say, for the record (in case anyone actually reads this thread):
It's ridiculous to suggest that someone with an obvious related language--who wants to come talk about it with others--has done anything wrong by doing so. Especially when that person was found, and asked to come talk about it (which was true in the case of Ni).
So no, there is absolutely nothing wrong with talking about one's language projects. Nor is there anything wrong with posting cat pictures... nor talking about Death Metal, or anything else in online chat... unless it is being done in a disruptive fashion.
Pretty much everyone knows this, but I'm stating it for the record. Lest anyone read here and ask if there's anything Goran did wrong. The answer is plan, flat, absolutely not. Ridiculous to suggest it or read ill will into it.
posted by: Fork 24-Feb-2016/17:10:54-8:00
Wow. As Fork writes I was actually INVITED. And I didn't even have the creds on Stackoverflow to join so I answered some questions to even get in.
I approached you guys out of genuine interest since I liked several core ideas of Rebol. I don't give a shit about any "dissatisfaction of progress" in Rebol/Red. I don't think any Reboler would be genuinely interested in Ni anyway, since its a different beast and definitely not mature or anything.
"Pretending to chat nicely"? I am baffled.
Finally, no, I am not trying to attract people for "my own benefit". And besides, even if someone did find Ni interesting (its open source you know) and actually did decide to help me out with it - what the hell is the problem with that?
Thanks Nick. Thanks Fork.
And hope I never stumble into you again iArnold.
posted by: Göran Krampe 24-Feb-2016/17:35:45-8:00
Why so negative, Arnold? Rebol community has always been very kind to all people and I would love if it stays the same.
posted by: rebolek 25-Feb-2016/2:37:19-8:00
The REBOL community always has been an amazingly friendly place.
posted by: Steven White 25-Feb-2016/8:51:52-8:00
Fork,"...Nor is there anything wrong with posting cat pictures..."
Now you've gone too far!
posted by: Sam 10-Mar-2016/21:38:06-8:00
I have to make an apology. Goran Krampe did not just burst into the Gitter room stating he had created his language. I completely missed out on some earlier discussion he had in that room.
That made my attitude more harsh than I would have done otherwise. For that I apologise too.
I do not however regret the overall way I see his interest in the Red and Rebol languages. His primary interest is (off course) Ni and very little to none for Red and Rebol. So I still regard him to bring mostly distraction away from the progress the Red project (in particular) needs to succeed in the long term.
I again apologise to the community if my actions have made this community look bad and not as friendly as it is in general.
posted by: iArnold 12-Mar-2016/5:06:25-8:00